Clearing Phoenix pay backlog could take up to 5 years

As the federal government forges ahead to replace the Phoenix payroll system, internal documents obtained by CBC News through access to informationsuggest clearing the backlog could take another three to five years.

The briefing note also suggests it could take 10 or more years for the system to achieve "overall stability."

The document was prepared in August2018for a deputy minister inEmployment and Social Development Canada(ESDC) ahead of a meeting with the Treasury Board official in charge of helping finda system to replace Phoenix.

"ESDC is encouraged by some recent incremental progress in the pay environment, yet remains extremely concerned about the pace of resolving the crisis," said the memo.

The memo said pay uncertainty is hampering recruitment and retention and that's threatening the department's ability to do its work.

Tens of thousands of workers burned

This week marks three years since the launch of Phoenix, the IBM-customized system that went live on Feb. 24, 2016.

Since then, tens of thousands of workers have been burned by Phoenix with some going months with little or no pay while others were overpaid.

• Anxiety over Phoenix crippling workers, families

Lynn McDaniel, a CRTC help desk technician, says she thought at one pointshe might lose her home because the government wasn't paying her at all.

Now, sheactually owes the government about $6,500because she was overpaid while she was off workbeing treated for cancer and having a mastectomy.

• 'I'm not afraid of cancer, I'm afraid of Phoenix'

McDanielis still off work because she is suffering from anxiety and depression, which she attributes in part to the financial stress Phoenix caused.

Hearingthe backlog could take another three to five years to clear is unsettling because her pay issues still aren't resolved.

"It makes me feel so sad,"McDanielsaid, adding her anxiety levels increase every time she thinks about returning to work.

"I know that when I'm going back to work that there's that risk that the pay interruption will happen again.

"I'm hoping there is an improvement there, but until you're in it, you don't know. It's out of your control and that's the stress, is knowing that there's nowhere to turn."

Government seeing progress

Public Services and Procurement Canada is in charge of stabilizing the current Phoenix system as work to replace the systementirely continues.

• Treasury Board launches process to design new payroll system
• IBM did not bid on Phoenix replacement, government says

StevenMacKinnon, parliamentary secretary to the procurement minister,pointed out that the memo didn't come from his departmentbut said hehopesthe backlog will be cleared sooner than it suggests.

"On one level you can extrapolate from a given month's reduction and say it'll take X months at this rate," he said.

"We're hoping to increase the rate of improvement month over month over month."

MacKinnondidn't give an exact timeline but said the government is seeing a reduction in the backlog each month, due in part to a new "pay-pod" system.

That systemassigns Phoenix pay system troubleshooters to work directly with specific federal departments.

MacKinnon said pods will be set up in all governmentdepartments by the spring.

• Phoenix 'pay pods' show some success, butno word on overall fix

Impact on recruitment and retention

The new president of the Treasury Board acknowledgedthe pay uncertainty has causedproblems in hiring and retention at the government.

"It's fair to say that there has been anxiety in the past over what's happened, but we have dealt with that head-on," Jane Philpottsaid.

She noted thatcertain departments have also been recognized by The Globe and Mail as some of Canada's top employers for youth.

"That work on stabilization has to continue of course, and we're seeing that happening." Philpott said.

"But we've recognized that we do need to move onto a new system and have a very positive process in place to do so."

PSAC wants damages for employees

The president of the Public Service Alliance of Canada said he isn't entirely surprised by the memo's projected timeline.

He iscalling on the government to negotiate damages for the mental anguish caused by Phoenix.

"It greatly disappoints me. It's totally frustrating for our members," said Chris Aylward.

"After three years of not being paid properly, our members are still sufferingpay issues, payday after payday after payday."

As of Feb. 22, there were 275,000 pay transactions "beyond normal workload" at the Public Service Pay Centre, according to the procurementdepartment.

The Treasury Board hopes to present the government options for a replacement payroll system by the spring, ahead of the October election.