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Posted: 2019-02-05T19:53:11Z | Updated: 2019-02-06T00:57:28Z

A noted border security expert who opposes President Donald Trumps proposed border wall is hoping to bridge a gap with a Republican congressman who attempted to mansplain the issue to her last week.

Juliette Kayyem, a national security expert and former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security, on Monday tried to rekindle her Twitter dialogue with freshman Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-Texas), who condescendingly offered on Friday to arrange a security explanation for the expert.

And by the way, as I type this, I am in a vehicle with CBP at the border. Happy to put you on the phone with them so you can learn more about this and properly inform your students.

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And by the way, as I type this, I am in a vehicle with CBP at the border. Happy to put you on the phone with them so you can learn more about this and properly inform your students.

Dan Crenshaw (@DanCrenshawTX) February 1, 2019

Kayyem promised to respond in detail when she was back from vacation.

Your first tweet is fair and I'll get to it. Your 2nd is ad homenim and condescending and for someone who has tried to elevate the convo, you should read my bio before playing that game. I've dealt with that he man stuff a lot. I'm on vacation so standby. Congressman. https://t.co/7SPm0PLPTS

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Your first tweet is fair and I'll get to it. Your 2nd is ad homenim and condescending and for someone who has tried to elevate the convo, you should read my bio before playing that game. I've dealt with that he man stuff a lot. I'm on vacation so standby. Congressman. https://t.co/7SPm0PLPTS

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 1, 2019

Kayyem finally responded on Monday, first apologizing to Crenshaw for the delay.

Oh hey. Sorry for the delay. Not on twitter all the time, Congressman. This may take a while and I know how busy you must be but let's start with substance then move to process. Shall we? 1/ https://t.co/SUwGMdH43t

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Oh hey. Sorry for the delay. Not on twitter all the time, Congressman. This may take a while and I know how busy you must be but let's start with substance then move to process. Shall we? 1/ https://t.co/SUwGMdH43t

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

Then she went into a very lengthy, very thoughtful and very informative series of tweets in which she explained why Trumps promised wall is neither the most effective nor the most efficient way to protect the border.

On substance, I think you know the answer. And if you listened to the one person who is your colleague and who actually knows the border (and is from your party), you would understand why the dynamics of border security are fluid and require a layered, not static, response. 2/

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On substance, I think you know the answer. And if you listened to the one person who is your colleague and who actually knows the border (and is from your party), you would understand why the dynamics of border security are fluid and require a layered, not static, response. 2/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

That would be Will Hurd so just read this first. https://t.co/Wz0kLrBBA6
If viewing better than reading, how about this:https://t.co/bckDsvHkQh 3/

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That would be Will Hurd so just read this first. https://t.co/Wz0kLrBBA6
If viewing better than reading, how about this:https://t.co/bckDsvHkQh 3/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

So, why would anyone who lives, works or actually spent a career (I think you know my bio by now. . . ) in homeland security and border management not favor a wall? The alternatives -- man/women power, technology, barriers (yes, lest you forget, the Obama Administration built

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So, why would anyone who lives, works or actually spent a career (I think you know my bio by now. . . ) in homeland security and border management not favor a wall? The alternatives -- man/women power, technology, barriers (yes, lest you forget, the Obama Administration built

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

nearly 800 miles of barriers, drones, dogs, etc. -- are so much better. See unlike a war zone (I'll defer to you on that), a port of entry must permit flow. It is how we function as a market economy. So us \"experts\" think about it in terms of how do we better \"secure flow\" 5/

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nearly 800 miles of barriers, drones, dogs, etc. -- are so much better. See unlike a war zone (I'll defer to you on that), a port of entry must permit flow. It is how we function as a market economy. So us "experts" think about it in terms of how do we better "secure flow" 5/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

build a wall. So let's take your example of the fentanyl arrest. Think about it: it was stopped because it wasn't a wall. It was intelligence, man/women power, technology and DOGS that led to the arrest. That's how it should work; it's not a sign that there is a better 6/

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build a wall. So let's take your example of the fentanyl arrest. Think about it: it was stopped because it wasn't a wall. It was intelligence, man/women power, technology and DOGS that led to the arrest. That's how it should work; it's not a sign that there is a better 6/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

alternative with a static solution. So I suspect you get this but I\"m happy to explain. On process, though, you are the congressman. And you know that your job is to weigh priorities with funding. 7/

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alternative with a static solution. So I suspect you get this but I"m happy to explain. On process, though, you are the congressman. And you know that your job is to weigh priorities with funding. 7/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

So let's assume you have 100 pennies to spend across competing priorities. And so let's say you want ALL of them to be spent on border enforcement (not sure how your constituencies would feel about that). 8/

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So let's assume you have 100 pennies to spend across competing priorities. And so let's say you want ALL of them to be spent on border enforcement (not sure how your constituencies would feel about that). 8/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

How would you spend them? No one, not even CBP until last few months, ever even thought a wall made sense because it would take years (tell me how that solves a crisis, but as you know there isn't one), require eminent domain (your Texas colleagues have thoughts on that), and 9/

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How would you spend them? No one, not even CBP until last few months, ever even thought a wall made sense because it would take years (tell me how that solves a crisis, but as you know there isn't one), require eminent domain (your Texas colleagues have thoughts on that), and 9/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

would pull from the dynamic security that does work. So that us \"experts\" oppose the wall is just an unbecoming comment. Us experts include your Republican colleagues and those of us who have worked border issues in government. And, again, CBP. 10/

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would pull from the dynamic security that does work. So that us "experts" oppose the wall is just an unbecoming comment. Us experts include your Republican colleagues and those of us who have worked border issues in government. And, again, CBP. 10/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

Kayyem then got personal with Crenshaw, and addressed what she called the mansplaining thing.

Anyway, I feel silly writing this. You know this and if you don't happy to continue the conversation but one final thing. . . about that mansplaining thing. 11/

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Anyway, I feel silly writing this. You know this and if you don't happy to continue the conversation but one final thing. . . about that mansplaining thing. 11/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

I wasn't going to re-engage it. I don't want to be know as the \"expert\" who accused you of mansplaining any more than you want to be known for an SNL skit. It's not why we do what we do; it's personal and I took to heart what you said in response to the SNL skit. Civility. 12/

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I wasn't going to re-engage it. I don't want to be know as the "expert" who accused you of mansplaining any more than you want to be known for an SNL skit. It's not why we do what we do; it's personal and I took to heart what you said in response to the SNL skit. Civility. 12/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

And as a graduate of Harvard, your odd mentions of it in every tweet to me (this is the first time I have mentioned it) suggests its a dig. I'm sorry you feel that way about what you may or may not have learned here. We try to teach responsible bipartisan leadership. 13/

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And as a graduate of Harvard, your odd mentions of it in every tweet to me (this is the first time I have mentioned it) suggests its a dig. I'm sorry you feel that way about what you may or may not have learned here. We try to teach responsible bipartisan leadership. 13/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

Some of us have spent a career in and out of government, or media, or private sector, and the academy (she is me). But I would take your interest in my opinions more seriously if they didn't include such odd personal attacks. 14/

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Some of us have spent a career in and out of government, or media, or private sector, and the academy (she is me). But I would take your interest in my opinions more seriously if they didn't include such odd personal attacks. 14/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

It's not becoming of your position.
I wish you best as you assess this and your role. And you engage with women and men whom you disagree with in a much less personal manner. I believe the facts, history, economics and policy are against building a wall. You don't. 15/

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It's not becoming of your position.
I wish you best as you assess this and your role. And you engage with women and men whom you disagree with in a much less personal manner. I believe the facts, history, economics and policy are against building a wall. You don't. 15/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

Support your point with facts, history, economics and policy. Not with mocking a woman. Because, well, she is me. And you will lose that one. 16/16

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Support your point with facts, history, economics and policy. Not with mocking a woman. Because, well, she is me. And you will lose that one. 16/16

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 4, 2019

Kayyem took a break for about eight hours before taking up the thread again, offering more details on what effective border security would entail.

Hi. So I'm back online and thanks for all these responses. I was rushed when I wrote this so I think I'm allowed to continue because in the responses it occurred to me that the basic tenets of security were relatively new to folks and I\"ll try to arm you all with what I know 17/

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Hi. So I'm back online and thanks for all these responses. I was rushed when I wrote this so I think I'm allowed to continue because in the responses it occurred to me that the basic tenets of security were relatively new to folks and I"ll try to arm you all with what I know 17/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

to help in this debate. So back to substance. Earlier I mentioned how we want fluid responses to support the (sometimes competing) goal of \"secure flow.\" It's how we think about movement in our homeland. (I'll leave the moral and legal issues about a wall to others). 18/

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to help in this debate. So back to substance. Earlier I mentioned how we want fluid responses to support the (sometimes competing) goal of "secure flow." It's how we think about movement in our homeland. (I'll leave the moral and legal issues about a wall to others). 18/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

But there is also a second tenet for how we think about complex security challenges: layered security. The basic goal here is to ensure that you don't build a system around, what we call, a \"single point of failure.\" 19/

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But there is also a second tenet for how we think about complex security challenges: layered security. The basic goal here is to ensure that you don't build a system around, what we call, a "single point of failure." 19/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

A \"single point of failure\" is to be avoided at all costs because if it is penetrated, then the whole system goes down. 9/11 and cockpit doors; Sony hack and a single system administrator; BP oil spill and a blowout preventer. So, ideally we build systems that have multiple 20/

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A "single point of failure" is to be avoided at all costs because if it is penetrated, then the whole system goes down. 9/11 and cockpit doors; Sony hack and a single system administrator; BP oil spill and a blowout preventer. So, ideally we build systems that have multiple 20/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

barriers so that the access point is either avoided (i.e. you can't get into a system through cyber attack because the system is layered and bifurcated) or difficult to access (i.e. lock the cockpit door, but have multiple security layers before entry to plane.) 21/

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barriers so that the access point is either avoided (i.e. you can't get into a system through cyber attack because the system is layered and bifurcated) or difficult to access (i.e. lock the cockpit door, but have multiple security layers before entry to plane.) 21/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

So, on substance, the \"wall\" defeats those two primary tenets of protecting a complex system: balancing security with flow (the border and points of entry) and avoiding the single point of failure (the wall can be overcome by a ladder or tunnel). 22/

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So, on substance, the "wall" defeats those two primary tenets of protecting a complex system: balancing security with flow (the border and points of entry) and avoiding the single point of failure (the wall can be overcome by a ladder or tunnel). 22/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

It's just a way to think about the substantive arguments about real security. Moral debates are important; legal ones as well. But it's important that critics of the wall also have the tools to explain why we aren't \"soft\" on security, but actually take it quite seriously. 23/

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It's just a way to think about the substantive arguments about real security. Moral debates are important; legal ones as well. But it's important that critics of the wall also have the tools to explain why we aren't "soft" on security, but actually take it quite seriously. 23/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

Ok, I think I may have violated some unwritten rule of twitter and threads, but my objection to the wall (even assuming I could get it for free and in a day, which I can't) are not just \"that's not who we are\" or \"immigrants are good for America.\" 24/

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Ok, I think I may have violated some unwritten rule of twitter and threads, but my objection to the wall (even assuming I could get it for free and in a day, which I can't) are not just "that's not who we are" or "immigrants are good for America." 24/

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

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I'm not known for being soft on security, border or otherwise. And so in the realm of policy options, the wall fails every standard that we have learned in homeland security for the last 20 years. Now, I say good night. 25/25

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I'm not known for being soft on security, border or otherwise. And so in the realm of policy options, the wall fails every standard that we have learned in homeland security for the last 20 years. Now, I say good night. 25/25

Juliette Kayyem (@juliettekayyem) February 5, 2019

Crenshaw hadnt responded to Kayyems thread as of Tuesday afternoon.

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