Elle Mary doesn't want your baby, she just wants you to behave

It's been four years in the making, but Elle Mary & the Bad Men's debut album is finally seeing the light of day. Constant Unfailing Night captures frontwoman Elin Rossiter's journey through heartbreak - struck via failed romance, and losing her dad to cancer - made bright with a dose of the Welsh-born Mancunian's characteristically wry humour. I checked in with Elin ahead of the band's first Italian tour, which begins on November 21 in Perugia, for Impolitikal .

Constant Unfailing Night's due out any day now! Who did you record it with?

We recorded at Queens Ark Audio in Levenshulme, with Karl Sveinsson - we did a couple of songs with him at 80 Hertz too. I guess its self-produced; we didnt have a producer. Why would I do that? Although now Im like, maybe itd be great to have a producer.

Ive heard they fill a role.

Can hear things I wont. Everything we do is really minimal and simple though, thats the way I like it. So the recording process is pretty easy too.

Youve been making music in Manchester for quite a while now -

Yeah, I started off doing folky stuff, and I was called Folkin' El, because I really like a pun. And before that, with my friend Jack, and we were called Jackel - cos hes Jack, and Im Elle.

Classic.

But it was never anything I took very seriously - it was never, Im gonna tour the world and change the face of music. I just did it because I liked it, and it was fun. I love singing, its a release. Its like yoga or something - you feel something when you sing. So, lots of singing in my room, along to Aretha Franklin, Macy Gray -

Show tunes...

I love a show tune. Shh dont tell anyone!

I know you do. But yeah, you taught yourself to sing essentially, right?

Yeah, I guess so - I just like doing it, so I did it. I had some lessons when I was 16, but I was so shy, and I found the warm-ups really embarrassing. I was just like, Im not doing that. 'But its a warm-up.' 'Im not doing it. Ill sing the song, thats it.' Now I wouldnt mind, its fine.

So I did that, and I ran a night called the Folk Cellar for a couple of years down at the Gaslamp, and that helped introduce me to lots of local Manchester musicians. Like Hawker Reunion , and The Bear Around Your Neck , and I became more familiar with songwriting myself. Even then, I dont think I took it too seriously. Id made an album as Folkin' El, but very DIY - so DIY, no one even knew about it.

Totally under the radar, super-underground.

But I still like those songs. I guess, because I wasnt trying to impress anyone or anything, I was just doing it because I liked it, they were easier to write or something. Maybe I was just younger, I dunno.

Not in your head about it.

Yeah, not concerned about, is this current? Are people going to like this? I think I got more conscious of what I was doing doing Elle Mary, and then almost had to unlearn that and go back.

What encouraged you to make an album as Elle Mary? It was a break-up, which I feel really lame about saying: Oh my god someone had a break-up and they wrote an album about it, can you believe it?

Its never happened before! Very important to have a point of difference.

But it did. They were a musician too, and I think it was almost like, well Im gonna write an album - and fuck you! And Im gonna be more famous than you! Im not. Theyre still famous. But I dont mind anymore. It was very cathartic and necessary as well - for a couple of weeks after the break-up I didnt sing, and I know Im really sad when I dont sing. I didnt eat either - but not singing means Im really, really sad.

When I started going through the emotions, just processing them - initially songwriting was just a way of analysing what had happened. I was in a pretty bad place with that, it was not very nice. Then eventually, although it was still very much in my mind, the songs started to be more about reflection in general - about anything, and everything.

And about the song itself -

Yeah, the song itself. And then you find song meanings can change, depending on your experiences or your mood. You can be like, I wrote this about this, but now its about this. Or somebody else will tell you, oh, is this about this? And youre like, yes, yes it is.

I guess its a document of your life at a point in time, but it can take on a different meaning, or develop a meaning.

Yeah, and sometimes you can write a couple of lines that are just meaningless, and eventually youre like, oh, thats what I meant - now. There might be an overarching theme, but the lines themselves are about different things. So actually, in reality, theres only a couple of songs on the album, maybe three, that are specifically about the break-up itself.

"Eventually, the songs started to be more about reflection in general - about anything, and everything."

Then a couple about my dad passing - and then in some, now I realise I was giving myself advice. Thats happened a lot actually, where Im like, oh, some part of me knew what to do, and I just wasnt listening. I guess as well, being written over such a long period of time, its not about one thing.

Did your dad pass during the time that you were writing the album?

Yeah he did. I dont think wed even recorded at that point. With him - I think after doing so much crying over my break-up, I was just like, Im not crying again. And seeing members of my family, who I considered to be really tough, just completely break down, I was like, well somebody needs to not cry, and its going to be me. Especially my little sister, I hated seeing her so sad, and I was like, if shes crying then I have to not cry, because normally its the other way round.

I repressed a lot of the feelings of grief, and then one day I took myself on a walk and told myself, thisll all be over soon, this death. Hell be over it, and we can go back to normal. Then I realised, oh yeah, he cant get over that, there is no getting over it. That's when it really hit me, so I wrote Undead for him. Oh god, Im going to cry now.

We dont have to keep talking about it.

Again, it was a necessary thing to write, because I wasnt talking about it.

What are some of the other themes you reference on the album, apart from break-ups and death?

Well, theres Behave, a video just came out for that which is amazing. Jim Oliver, who directed the video for Pretend, where I shave my hair off, did the video for Behave and its also in a film noir style. Hes doing a trilogy, one for Falling as well.

Behave is after feeling all that pain and everything, comes anger. It was actually from an experience with a new partner after the big break up, of finding some self-respect. After second-guessing yourself all the time, you finally stand your ground. So yeah, this is a bit of an I Will Survive song, but its also meant to be funny. Its meant to make you laugh.

People can associate it with what they would really love to say but maybe wont. On a side note, I didnt actually tell this guy to go fuck himself. Hed sent me an email and I let him know I didnt want to see him and signed it off, "All the best."

Well wishes, heres to a bright and healthy future. Let me, make you, feel ok.

Yeah, it was a very snide, office talk, 'All the best, really mean it, take care.'

Sincerely yours, no longer.

It kind of gives you strength, but you can also have a bit of a laugh with it as well.

Its hard to be a strong, independent woman! And still have feelings.

Its hard to know which feelings are ok to have - are they all ok, or are none of them ok? I cant tell. Shall we all think like men? Maybe if I just suppress all the feelings...

So theres that: telling people to go fuck themselves. Then I have an odd song, No Baby. It was a collection of stories, where I wasnt really sure what I was saying till later. I think there are feminist themes running through each line. People telling you to smile, waiting for a man to make you complete. The last line I dont want a baby/I just need some answers, I wrote that when I was 25. I was feeling very lost, didnt know what to do with my life, where to go, to quit my job or not, so many questions. Then for a flash I thought I know, Ill just have a baby.'

And its like, 'No, no! Thats not the way Im supposed to decide that!'

It crosses your mind and you kind of laugh it off. Im aware its right for some people, but I dont think you should do it to give yourself direction.

The music industrys changed a lot, but its still pretty male-dominated, and I imagine it can be quite hard to be a woman doing her own thing. How have you found it?

I think its definitely improving. Theres this awesome magazine I get called She Shreds , and its just about women guitarists, and its so wonderful and I wish it was there when I was 20. Women talking about women, which is great. But yeah, you definitely still see it, where all the headline acts are men - even fairly progressive festivals are still male-dominated - and its like, well we shouldnt just let women do it just because theyre women. If a mans better a man should play. Nah - the only way you can improve something is by -

Having the opportunity to do it.

Yeah, so the more we let women play - or any kind of minority - the more they will improve, the more talent will come through.

Just even through being made to feel psychologically safe in that. Theres a place for you here - youre as valid and welcome as anybody else. Its amazing what that can do towards making you feel like youre talented and able.

Exactly. I remember as a kid or teenager thinking that women were pop stars, and they didnt write their own songs - they werent capable of it. And I never saw any girls in my school playing music in that way - there were singers, and that was it. I just thought, thats not something women do, even though Im doing it now. I think I felt like that for ages, to be honest.

"I remember as a kid thinking that women were pop stars, and they didnt write their own songs - they werent capable of it."

Then things changed - but it was because I just didnt see it, didnt see girls forming bands or anything. I also grew up on an army base, my dad was a dentist in the army. Riot grrrl, not a thing that happened. Wasnt aware of that at all. I think thats quite hard for people to understand.

I mean, Ive been lucky, and maybe its because Ive got guys in the band, but I havent had too much trouble. There have been a couple of things - like someone made a really inappropriate joke when I was in London, one of the sound guys or the lighting guy. He made a sexual joke about the way I was playing guitar, or something like that, and I was just like, What? You wouldnt do that to a guy you just met, you just wouldnt. Things like that are frustrating, or sound engineers - sorry, I shouldnt single them out, but assuming you dont know what youre doing with your equipment. Little things.

Do you feel that in Manchester generally the music scene is pretty conducive to independent artists making music and doing new things? Is there a lot of support for that? People seem to play a lot.

Yeah, I have a really nice community of friends who play music, and for me thats my world. But Im aware that there must be even more pockets of little gangs of musicians like that about. The ones I know, theyre all just super nice and help each other out. Ive done backing singing for a few different people - theres always someone to chat to, and we support each other. Its really nice. Everyones pretty good to each other, thats my experience so far.

Elin in her side project with Nick Ainsworth (Former Bullies, Secret Admirer, Dinner Party), Leantime.

As your day job you work at a trade union. Is it just a day job to you?

It is just a day job, but there are things about it that are very important and speak to me - employment law and peoples rights. Stuff I had no idea about really until I started working there myself. Now I'm like, wow, why doesnt everyone join a trade union? Everyone really should. The idea of people coming together in solidarity, to make things right - I really think it can work, but it does require everybody coming together. Dont just say youll get 'round to it, do it.

Its also that thing of knowing the questions to ask. I mean, as a freelancer, Ive never had that sense of job security or known what my rights are. You just get used to it.

Most people in employment - in permanent, full time positions - dont know their employment rights. Theres a reason. Its a way to control people. Especially if you dont know. And when you start looking into it youre like, Oh! I can have sick pay? Things like this, you are allowed to ask. And if you get fired for asking, thats illegal - you can take it up.

"The idea of people coming together in solidarity, to make things right - I really think it can work, but it does require everybody coming together."

Obviously, the government try and make it hard with tribunal fees, but then Unison have recently turned that over , which means a huge bunch of trials to come through now. But the only way to fight that kind of oppression is to come together. So, join a union today! The information is out there, but it does take work - and obviously if you join a union its easier to get that information.

We went to a Manchester People's Assembly march recently, and it seemed like a lot of unions were out. But, in terms of where the UKs at at the moment, there seem to be a lot of people wanting a fairer deal, but not really knowing what theyre entitled to and how they can grasp at it. So, marching seems like a good thing to do, but also -

Marching shows a physical presence, that people are upset. And the bigger and bigger these marches get - possibly one massive positive of social media, generally its full of tripe, but one positive is you can actually find out about these marches, and you can actually see people on them. Because theyre so often not televised, and it seems like no one cares, and everyones happy with the way things are. You can actually see now, theres no denying it.

Well was it you who was telling me that the last couple of years the BBC -

They were told not to film, and it was a huge demonstration. The police told them not to film it. A few years before that, Im sure the same happened in London, at a pro-Corbyn thing. Again, not televised, but you could find it on social media. Its just another way to try and suppress people, by making them think that theyre divided, when theyre not.

Or that the collective voice is quieter than it actually is.

Then I suppose youve got the negative of social media, the echo chamber and people not listening. I dont really see the point in starting a discussion with someone if you just want to shout them down - no, you need to think like me! Thats not a discussion, so why even start it, if youre not open to hearing what the other side has to say? And not take any of the good points, thats silly. Youre just making yourself angry on the internet. Whats the point?

Find Elle Mary & the Bad Men at www.ellemarymusic.com .

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