Roddy Piper --In the Pit with Wrestling's Evil Genius

"Rowdy" Roddy Piper passed away at his home in Hollywood, Calif., last week, after reportedly suffering a heart attack in his sleep. The WWE Hall of Famer was 61.

Those who were there to witness his glory will never forget him. Working from a revolutionary formula of unrepentant cheating, confrontation politics, adrenaline-driven dada, unbridled brutality and a new kind of ring science that included a brace of tropical fruit along with the usual arsenal of eye-gouging skullduggery and sleeper holds, Piper turned an art form on its head. Indeed, just the mention of the man's name is a gleeful ode to outrage and innovation.

Piper was avant in a world that that was usually painted as low-brow and boorishly unironic by the bourgeoisie, an anarchist in a world where almost nothing was legit. He became one of the greatest professional wrestlers and television personalities in history by ruthlessly moving the edge of reality closer to the absurd, and letting us all know that he was in on the joke.

This interview was originally published in music and art magazine Royal Flush in 2011. It has been edited for space.

-- M.E.

You were working out at the Comedy Store last night. I saw a video of you playing the piano there -- with someone's head.

Well, you know, I improv a lot. Especially with violence.

Speaking of comedy and improv, you knew Andy Kaufman pretty well.

When I was wrestling at the Olympic in L.A. he would do his Elvis impersonation for the security guards so they would let him in the back door. He would watch me, and then go to the comedy club and do what I did. People would walk out on him and say, "What are you doing? You think you are a comedian? I want my money back." Andy's philosophy was as long as it got a reaction, that's what he was looking for. He could be funny all the time, but he was going to a different plane of understanding.

Like Kaufman, your best work blurs the edges of what is "real," even in wrestling terms.

When I got to New York there was this unbelievable talent pool, and everyone was beating the dog out of each other, trying to top each other. It could only go so far. I was in a bar in St Louis with Vince McMahon, and I said, "Give me a bow tie, a mic stand, and five weeks, and if don't get the job done I'm out of here." And the next time we did TV, the Piper's Pit set that you know was there. Holy cow, I didn't know what to do.

Really? Because it seemed like you were a man on a quest. You destroyed your guests. When you had Frankie Williams on, I remember watching it, and let me tell you, if you had landed a flying saucer in Times Square it could not have been any weirder. You crossed over into a very strange place.

And that's what put the "X" on Piper's Pit. This was taboo at the time -- I said, "You're a wonderful guy, but you're a lousy wrestler. You've never won a match." You are not supposed to say that. It wasn't keeping it square. Every Pit was an improv. The fans knew. They could identify that we weren't writing this -- we were going out there and winging it. It got to the point where guys -- good fighters, good talkers -- didn't want to come on the show.

And then there was Snuka and the Shot Heart 'Round the World. I have always said that you smashing the coconut against his skull was the third greatest moment in the history of television -- right after the first moon landing and Nixon resigning.

People always ask me, "Where did you get the coconut from?" I dont know, Safeway? It wasn't a prop. It was a real coconut. It wounded him for life. He took the shot, he knew it was coming. I don't think there is an angle that could ever beat that one. First of all he is Jimmy Snuka, he looks fantastic, he is an unbelievable performer. God could not have given me any more than that. But there was no idea that piece of business would get us where it did at the time. We had no idea we were making history... I am unbelievably grateful for Snuka for doing that.

Of course your other most famous feud, beginning on MTV and leading into the first WrestleMania, was with my old nemesis, that lumbering yellow doofus Hulk Hogan.

Hogan was an office boy, and I wasn't. He got the big push -- but I never did a job for him. Real wrestling fans always knew Hogan couldn't wrestle. And he's not exactly an intellectual, either... The path he chose is very simple. He wears spandex in the airport. That's his identification as a man.

You seem a lot more restrained in films than you do in the ring. Even in the big fight scene in They Live, it isn't the crazy out-of-control Roddy Piper, everything seems a lot more measured.

They say that wrestlers are actors and they couldn't be more wrong. The truth is wrestling and acting could not be more opposite. Wrestling is explosion and acting is implosion... It is a different art. Wrestling moves are made for arenas, not the screen. For the screen you have to be street. Everyone understands that. It's more honest.

You've never been afraid of getting down and dirty. As a heel you've been pretty nasty. Some of it would never go over now -- there were some bits where the race-baiting was way over the edge, telling Rocky Johnson to shine your shoes. That's a helluva way to get heat.

I was working with David Shultz, who was my tag team partner then, and he played that card. He was a Southern boy -- if you watch some of the interviews, I tried to lighten up that part of it, but it was going too hard in that direction, just because that's the way Shultz went at it. I'm not proud of it. I think it is a cheap and uncreative way to do your business, but we were going so fast I just went with it. I hate a bully, and I hate racists. It's all bullshit.

Well, obviously you aren't a racist. You brought America across the post-racial frontier with your Bad News Brown gimmick, when you painted yourself half black and declared, "When it comes to me there ain't no difference between black and white"

Vince said, "We want you to wrestle Bad News at WrestleMania." And I'm thinking in my mind, he's a solid guy, but he lacked a lot of charisma. I had to do thirty promos for the match. What the hell was I gonna do? It had nothing to do with racism, it just popped into my head -- I'll paint myself half black! It gave me something to talk about... It took four weeks to get that crap off, working in a sauna everyday.

Why are heels always funnier and more charismatic than the babyfaces? I never rooted for a good guy in my life -- they never seem to get it.

Babyfaces are afraid, they are trying to be light. They want to be liked. I'm a heel by trade, because I don't care what you think. You don't come in the arena waiting for the fans to cheer you, that's wrong. Do your job and they will come along. You need to take them on the journey, they don't take you.